If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Compare. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). MCX-SPEAR . Looks pretty sweet . Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. All Rights Reserved. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). I said you really loved shooting the orange . The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. Awesome pistol by the way. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Supporter+. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . The bottom line? I bought a Tread on a whim. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! *Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. Sig Sauer. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. Sig's new SnakeBite . Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to The Rattler is, essentially, as. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. Visually, this made them less obvious. It was too short. Subscriber Services. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. I'm a sucker for. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. You are using an out of date browser. Cookie Notice The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. They said nothing as short as the rattler. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. View Product. Boasting nice crisp break, the trigger also has a short reset allowing the gun to run fast. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. | Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Love this gun . Matte Black. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. Wow just read the article on TTAG. You have entered an incorrect email address! Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . This website contains many older reviews. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. Thanks Bio. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. models. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Save my name and email to use for future comments. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. I would go with the sig. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. and our I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. .300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm Designed for rapid deployment from concealment, the MCX Rattler packs a punch in the .300 BLK configuration. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. . Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. Why pay more?

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