In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. I have learned much on this blog and often from your comments which are intelligent and insightful. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? I dont want other people having that same regret. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. I am always eager and willing to learn, so no argument here. I hope more will speak up in the future. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. This is why I said above I dont think Driscoll should even be allowed to go on speaking engagements, sell Christian books, or anything involving Christianity. In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. no., to forgive them prepares you to see jesus. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. @ sam: And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. He was an abusing thug. He is not going to go run to a car dealership the minute he gets out of jail. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. @ Lydia: My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. But, as you said, there is no substitute for a work of the Holy Spirit. These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. Youre right. Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) Driscoll, IMHO, is completely unsuited for any position of authority. So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. It was like my eyes were open. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. they warm up to stone people like baseball players and lay their coats at the feet of saul to show he is the alpha. (I would have thought he was the lazy one who didnt want to get his hands dirty by actually doing anything but talking a lot), takes it from daniel where god becomes man, if you saw Jesus you would not likely see him as you expect. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). Wow! He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. 13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio. ), Odd how we often tend to read these things as definitive acvounts, when in reality, there are hints of many other things that go unmentioned. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. He genuinely seemed to care. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. Open Discussion Page. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. Or is it just a GW thing? http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. Mega churches are asking people to step back from the reality of how they effect people and just go along with a bunch of rules and covenants and christianeese and let them stay in their positions cause their friends say they are changed. I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father, but through Me -Jesus, all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!. 99,693 were here. Hosting a giant event without distancing or masking is irresponsible and insulting to the people on the front lines of this crisis, most especially the health care workers who are overwhelmed. mode. . these were murders not trials. But the dishonest churches can be relied upon to cry persecution. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. Marc turned the offer down and we received the letter from Scott Thomas shortly thereafter. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. Welcome Home to Church Online! . Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. what they are. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. Restaurants and bars / taverns also use atmosphere teams. Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. Sex abuse inquiry to hear how churches responded to allegations against his father, Frank Houston, and two other men. It is the normalization of sociopathy. http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31866. It is all choreographed and it works! During this pandemic, we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and. The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. it is heartbreaking to have to help them get through the transfer of custody until the one can get through a treatment and be able to be around the child again. Van, I agree with Deb. Mark flatly denied it, but I believe we may be seeing a pattern here. He sought out those that God sent Him to minister to in remote places away from crowds. Great observation! If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. You might be onto something there Sopy. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. Mark begins to describe what happened with Stephen in Acts 6:8-15. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. they had a scandal about their homes for helping young women also, financial corruption-ish and not letting the women get outside counseling. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. Same deal with Driscoll, just a different sound track. king does not stand up for you. He is a draw. Why should we bother with reading history or learning the truth? Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Kids will experience life-giving messages and TONS of fun as they watch content created just for them. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. And how many know you cant not everything you read on the internet is true, and so as a church I just I just know this, as a church we want to be careful that we dont ever put ourself in a situation where were shooting the wounded, and you know God has laid Mark and Grace upon Debbie and my heart repeatedly over the last several months. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. love to hear that sermon. It is all choreographed and it works! Who has wounded you? He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. I cant see those photos without also thinking of the images weve all seen of the impossible circumstances our hospitals are battling every day, Goddard began in a series of tweets. The Weapons Of Our Warfare Are Not Carnal?. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. Given how media savvy Hillsong is (yes, even here in Australia!) I had never heard someone talk like that. How do you see this as someone looking in? The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. Title I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. @ Nancy: Q. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. Not a fan but many are. in the first years of the organinazation they didnt do anything without consensus because they believed that if they were a group of believers the Lord would make them of the same agreement on specific issues and if they didnt reach agreement there was a reason that needed to be looked at. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. Even a brief check on MD online will turn up 67 billion pages with examples of his vulgar or obnoxious and bullying behavior, including several blogs by ex Mars Hill members.

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